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I really hope this is a truely Gibbs focussed episode. The last episode didn’t even warrent mentioning. I love the interactions with Gibbs and Franks and I always liked pappy Gibbs
Fingers crossed. -
I watched it this morning and wasn’t wowed. It struck me as being a bit of a mess. I could have done without the case which bored me when I was interested in the flashbacks.
But as usual with NCIS it was so cryptic I couldn’t make any sense of it. I think Kate living and having babies rather outweighs whatever minor angst the show seemed to have about Ziva still being with Mossad – that was her initial choice after all and she seemed to enjoy it well enough. At least she’s ALIVE and making her own choices. And she didn’t seem too upset about those choices. She was having a fine old time leading Tony a dance in interrogation.
Someone said that in the scene in the basement with beardy!Gibbs being depressed and drunk that Tony had died but that was so unclear that really I think it’s supposition although it does make sense of that scene a bit more, and the way they kept referring just to Kate re the baby and not to Tony. Otherwise it’s just a giant WTF moment for me.
I don’t understand Gibbs’s relationship with his mom or why she left. Was she ill? An alcoholic? Does ‘left’ mean ‘died’? Why was Gibbs’s dad changing her bedsheets every day? Was he dating other women while she was dying? Or drunk? IS she even dead? WTF was it all about? Why couldn’t they clarify all this and make it clearer? I don’t think NCIS’s repeated lack of clarity makes it CLEVER. Clever is something like the pilot episode of Touch where a gazillion disparate strands came together by the end and made sense, while still being complex. NCIS is just LAZY – it feels to me like it never wants to spell anything out in case it wants to retcon itself or alter its facts and continuity at some later date.
I thought DM completely outclassed everyone else in this episode, with some truly stellar acting. It’s criminal how little Ducky gets used when DM is such a class act.
I wish GG had dispensed with the boring case and just gone with the diner/flashbacks. There were some really nice bits in there – for example the Shannon/Kelly stuff and finding out it was them or Gibbs – although really valuing his contribution over any they might have made was a tad crass. Kelly might have grown up to be a doctor and cure cancer or something! Or Shannon might have written a best selling novel!
I loved the Kate bit but it seemed to me that was an outtake from SWAK judging by those pyjamas she was wearing. That makes sense of the utterly waspish portrayal in a moment where that kind of shrewishness really doesn’t seem appropriate or likely. She’s a new mom introducing her lovely baby to its dad for the first time! However annoyed with him she might be about missing the birth, you’d think she’d be overcome with love and joy in that moment!
The Tim plot was a big ‘so what?’ for me. The show has ruined Tim over the past few seasons. I used to really like him but now he seems so dull and colourless. He used to write novels and have a personality! He wanted to date Abby! He was funky and amusing and interesting. Now he’s positively anorexic in both appearance and character. He’s either solving computer tech stuff or being whiny. I thought it was telling that the show seems to think that Gibbs’s ‘team’ consists of Tony and Ziva – that’s what Mike said to Gibbs. “Tony and Ziva and your team”, making the others some kind of secondary afterthought. Tim doesn’t even rate a mention, much less Abby and Ducky. No surprises there as that’s the way the show has gone in recent seasons but that’s also why I don’t like it anymore.
The inclusion of Ari and Jenny and various others seemed utterly random when they weren’t actually USED. I wouldn’t have minded them being there and saying nothing if there had been some point to them but there didn’t seem to be. Vance and Ari playing chess seems to be the kind of stupid idea that sounded cool but makes no real statement within the context of the episode – and nor does it make any sense, either.
And superhuman Gibbs is back at work the day *after* being shot in the shoulder? At least when Ari shot him he looked like he was in pain and he was out of action for awhile. Another WTF moment for me.
This is the last NCIS episode I’ll watch. I’m really so over this show. When I’m not dodging Tiva anvils, I’m wondering what the hell happened to the Tony and Gibbs I fell in love with. They really are long gone I think. -
um ok so i’m guessing its not going to be the episode I hoped for
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Well you might love it so don’t let me put you off! I know lots of Tibbs fans DID love it. I just really didn’t. I think it’s possible that the lack of Tiva might be enough to make some people like it after the way the show has gone lately, but even without any Tiva to speak of, it just fell short for me. There seemed like some good ideas in there trying to get out but they were poorly executed to my mind. Maybe because I’m used to AUs from fanfic and know how fantastic they CAN be, but they are very rarely done on TV so I think they have less experience as to how to make them work! LOL!
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I know what you mean, xanthe.
I REALLY wanted to absolutely love this episode. I liked the idea of what the episode did, how they showed viewers an AU world of NCIS. I just wished they showed us more of that AU. I didn’t give a *bleep* about the “present day” case.
Tony and Ziva’s relationship in the AU was even more vague than it is in present day. Who was she to Tony in that scene? Why was she in the interrogation room?
It never occurred to me that Tony would have been dead in the beardy Gibbs basement scene. The baby news sounded brand new to Gibbs, and we had just seen Tony holding the baby, so him being dead would be strange. I think there would have been a lot more sadness, especially on Abby’s part if Tony had died. Interesting theory though.
Also, I also really wished they had gotten Sasha Alexander to come back for Kate’s role–because like you pointed out, in that old footage she was too bitchy/stoic with Tony for being late (it was definitely “SWAK” footage.) They just had a baby for pete’s sake! Happy times!
Re Gibbs’ mom, I got the impression she and Gibbs had a healthy, loving relationship, then she got sick and died and thus “left” him and Gibbs senior. Gibbs felt bitterness about her dying, maybe towards her or himself or his father. I don’t think Gibbs senior was cheating on her. I didn’t have that impression watching it, though to be sure I’d have to rewatch that scene. Will I though? I don’t know if I even care that much. Which is sad because a few seasons ago I would have cared that much. Re changing the bed sheets, I thought that towards the end of her life, she was so sick that she couldn’t even get out of bed, so daily hygiene and maintenance was required. This is speculation though, obviously, since they didn’t explain.
I was happy that TPTB were even giving Tim a storyline. It could have been more interesting, but too bad they shoehorned it in with the Gibbs-heavy episode. With all the Gibbs stuff and the AU and the present day case, Tim’s storyline was just lost. I DO wish they’d go back to his writing. Or his dog. Or something about his personality that didn’t involve a guest star.
Oh yeah, Gibbs gets shot and then just goes back to work? I don’t think so. There’d be at least ONE day in the hospital. Or a sling or bandage or something.
I don’t blame you for being over this show. It’s getting tiring. From a fanfic POV, it’s not as inspiring as it used to be either. There’s not tons of new fics out there to read, not like there used to be. I wish I’d gotten into it sooner -
Yeah TTime. I’ve noticed the decline in good fic – or much fic at all too. And the discussion boards are really slow now as well. I just don’t feel the same love for the show I used to and it ends up upsetting me because I USED to love it so much.
Beardy!Gibbs was a different AU to Baby!Tony. Baby!Tony was the AU where Kate lived. Beardy!Gibbs was the AU where Gibbs didn’t shoot Hernandez. Kate still had a baby but Tony didn’t seem to be around anymore – nobody mentions him and he seems to be either dead or never in Gibbs’s life in the first place. And I think Tony’s baby was a boy but the second one in the beardy!Gibbs reality was a girl. But see – that’s what’s so confusing. I didn’t get that either on first viewing and someone else had to tell me. And you didn’t get it. It was a muddle – so confusing.
Ditto the stuff with Gibbs’s mom which I think I MIGHT have found touching if I knew what the hell the back story there was. See – you think she was ill and the ‘left’ was dying and maybe it WAS but it could have been something else too – if Gibbs meant she’d ‘died’ on them he should have bloody well said so! It was all so cryptic and ambiguous and while I don’t mind that NCIS leaves SOME stuff open, it’s gone too far now and is just unsatisfying.
Sigh
And yes re Tim – the dog, his novel, SOMETHING other than fading utterly into the background all the time even when he gets a wodge of story. I mean, this thing could have been a big deal for him but to stick it in a heavy Gibbs-centric episode meant it got utterly swallowed up. Even Abby didn’t have a reaction to the news he’d been offered the job! And Gibbs didn’t either!
As for fanfic, I’m fairly sure I won’t write any more NCIS – but on the plus side I have started something else – she said mysteriously! Too soon to tell how (or if!) it’ll pan out though! -
Hmm. I was debating about watching this, as you know, and by your comments I don’t think I’ll bother. I have to admit that when I heard Mark say that this episode was for the fans I cringed in my seat. That’s never a good sign. As much as I complain and spout my opinion, I don’t know that I’d actually want TPTB to listen to me or any fans. I want them to have a clear vision and tell the story they set out to tell. Unfortunately for that to work they need decent writers and a showrunner who isn’t afraid to take chances.
When I was talking with a friend after seeing Mark on the Craig Ferguson show about the episode and why I was waffling about watching it I explained that the AU aspect bothered me; mostly because the writing has been so bad that I had very little faith that it would be handled well. Then later when I was gushing to her brother’s boyfriend about the SGA episode “Vegas” she wanted to know why that AU was okay and the one on NCIS wasn’t. I tried to explain that the NCIS one looked like it was one big “It’s a Wonderful Life” clich -
I agree about the AU, in principle, it could have been wonderful, but i found it ended up lacking any of the emotional intensity it should have. Oh look, there is my dead daughter i love so much and pine over, and i will barely react at all. It was extremely disjointed and disappointing all the way around, and had it been potentially a powerful episode. Vegas on the other hand, was a totally awesome SGA episode, and a total surprise after a generally lack-lustre season (The Shrine excepted), one of my fav SGA eps even though that wasn’t much McShep in it.
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And in the end, I’m guessing there are no real consequences from the NCIS episode. It’s all in Gibbs’ head. (So, technically everything that happens is from his perspective, which could have been a tremendous moment of character insight but I’m getting the impression they didn’t go there.)
At least in “Vegas” there were consequences in our universe. As fun as it was to hang out with Detective Sheppard, it was very cool that it meant something. (And I agree those were the best two episodes of season five – even if we had to have Keller hanging around in both of them.) The NCIS episode didn’t have any meaning and will most certainly not have any lasting effect on Gibbs. It was intended as a big thank you to the fans, but they’re forgetting that old show biz motto “you can’t please all of the people all of the time” so every time they pander to one faction of their fan base they’re alienating the other.
Still, it appears as though everyone on the show is having a good time so more power to them. -
It was a 200th episode. Series that ever get a 200th episode have been around for a long time, with entrenched characters and storylines repeated several times already. So they tried something a little different, but 200th eps tends to cater to the fans, and more often than not it doesn’t really work, because, well, y’can’t please ’em all. SGA’s 200th ep had more tongue-in-cheek fun, but despite all the hype leading up to it, it was a bit of silliness.
I didn’t mind the “real time” story, the B story in this case. but I did mind how they played Franks. Here was a marine even more ornery than Gibbs, and yet he came across as such a softy. Guess death changes you… the Kate and Jenny appearances were odd and CG-ed odd, respectively. At least it looked that way. But I do like that they haven’t forgotten Kate and Ari. The Tony interviewing Ziva scene wasn’t confusing to me, but I did like him guessing her name was “Tiva”.
And no, they never have enough Abby and Ducky, but on the other hand, its a good gig. You don’t work all the time, you get a steady paycheck, and you get to go to Comic Con (well, Pauly Perrette) and the Craig Ferguson show… -
And in the end, I’m guessing there are no real consequences from the NCIS episode. It’s all in Gibbs’ head. (So, technically everything that happens is from his perspective, which could have been a tremendous moment of character insight but I’m getting the impression they didn’t go there.)
At least in “Vegas” there were consequences in our universe. As fun as it was to hang out with Detective Sheppard, it was very cool that it meant something. (And I agree those were the best two episodes of season five – even if we had to have Keller hanging around in both of them.) The NCIS episode didn’t have any meaning and will most certainly not have any lasting effect on Gibbs. It was intended as a big thank you to the fans, but they’re forgetting that old show biz motto “you can’t please all of the people all of the time” so every time they pander to one faction of their fan base they’re alienating the other.
Still, it appears as though everyone on the show is having a good time so more power to them.
I’d be interested in what you thought if you could bring yourself to watch it Georgie. I was annoyed with it but that could partly be finding NCIS quite annoying generally anyway. -
I think NCIS goes down the root of ‘trying to please all the people all the time’ and ends up lacking its own creative vision as a result. But maybe that comes with the territory when you’re the number one show after 200 episodes. I really love the IDEA of the AUs but found the execution really poor. I think what annoyed me most was that it COULD have been so good.
But I’m out of love with NCIS anyway, so I guess that colours my views a bit too. Others might come to the episode with less baggage. -
Is it Tiva-less? If there isn’t even a hint of it I’ll give it a watch. For you. (I know there’s a mention of the word, but you know that’s not what I mean.)
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